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"I was Neo in the official Matrix"

Pavel Shugurov explained why he goes to power and what this gives to street art in the Far East.

Street artist, punk musician, civil servant, businessman, father of many children, teacher, writer, journalist ... In an interview for our column # unsettled - man-Pacific Orchestra Pavel Shugurov reflects on why it is not worth fleeing from Vladivostok, and why his fellow countrymen have a phenomenon of life in several parallel realities.    

"I was Neo in the official Matrix"
Photo: collage from East Russia

- your works are exhibited at the Moscow Museum of Modern Art "Garage" and St. Petersburg "Erarte". НAvernyak were flattering offers about moving. Why stayed in Vladivostok?

- I have never had the desire or the mood to leave Vladivostok. Even at a time when the city seemed small to me, and I was young and full of strength and wanted to conquer the world. First of all, in Vladivostok I like the possibility of self-realization. A lot of galleries, exhibition halls, circle of communication is very interesting. We in the trend of world cultural movements kept and hold on. So it was even before the advent of the Internet, because the city is a port. A lot of information comes to us: someone leaves, comes, brings something, tells. In 2000, I went to conquer the west. At that moment we had a very interesting closed subculture. Then people were still not in such a mass order leaving, there were many artists, musicians, they self-organized in the industry, held different festivals, there was a very full of creative life. The only thing that embarrassed me was that I was very young, as it seemed to me then, and already hang out with cultural celibates. 

In pre-revolutionary Russia, there was such a practice as a pensioner's trip. When the artist graduated from the Academy of Arts, he was sent to Italy or somewhere to the origins of the culture, whose bearer he is. Some of these trips did not return, like Ivanov, you remember, he was there and settled in Italy. I decided to organize myself such a "pensioner's trip": three years - St. Petersburg, three years - Moscow, and three years - Western abroad. Plus or minus this plan was realized.
Each city is different for its people, mentality, and everywhere a person has arrived it is necessary to adjust, get used to, and this is difficult and not always expedient.


It is interesting to understand the St. Petersburger, but when you start to penetrate into this world of the inhabitant of the marshes, it does not become so joyful. A lot of depressive, and at one point you say - why do you need all this, why are you raping yourself? It's also interesting to become a metropolitan, but after you've been running a year or two over these metro, these traffic jams, these meetings are business, which maybe do not carry any business, and in Moscow it's customary to compost each other's brains, and you you think: "Why am I here? Why do I comprehend it all? "You answer yourself that you have a specific goal, this is a pensioner's trip, and you're just a spectator here, you do not have to get used to this, accept the rules of this game. Then, as a release from this, a homecoming occurs where you understand the relief, people, and even if they are less cultured, more arrogant and expressive, they are close to you, because you are exactly like them.

- How did the cultural environment in St. Petersburg and Moscow meet? As a competitor, as a curiosity from Vladivostok or as a person carrying a new one?

- The culture of our capitals at 90% is made by people visiting, and everyone is used to that if a fresh breeze blows, it's not local, but someone has come. There tusovka open enough, but, on the other hand, and quite closed. Not by the criterion of what came, did not come, but simply because the competition is frenzied and just so you will not be allowed.

- Then you tried yourself in the role of a reporter?

- When I returned from the pension trip to 2009, I was amazed that the main slogan of people in Vladivostok was "wali". Then the summit did not start, there was a big construction site, and in the city there was a very large compressed negative. And I came on a positive, returned to my homeland, told everyone how great it would be here, but no one believed. Like-minded people had to be looked for among students, because all of our old military guards had already become decadent in spirit. Then I thought that we need to make a transfer, turned to television. As a result, he made a series of 10 programs about urban art. I showed different city artifacts, then, what I'm a professional, and showed what people are used to not noticing - street art objects, interesting city stuff. It was interesting. Indeed, this is a city of self-actualization. You want to do the transfer - do it, you want to draw on the walls - draw. For example, making your transfer in Moscow would be much more difficult.

- They speak of you as one of the best street artists in Russia. So far, are not you afraid to get your hands dirty, get stuck in the paint?

- This is the whole point, that the artist is not afraid of anything at all. For me, the artist is the one who permeates all professions and social strata. And if today he has an idea related to sewerage, he can become a scavenger and a digger, and the next day, drink a vintage wine in Hollywood with the producers. This is a person who is not tied to a specific layer, social stratum, class, this is the point. Today punk, tomorrow shanson - a modern artist. I am definitely an artist, and it is a contemporary artist who can see the world as symbols, as images and is able to broadcast them to others.


- On which wall did you leave your first trace?

- We in the Far East have this: you want to be an astronaut, first cut out the clearing, build your Baikonur, and then into space. The industry is really poorly developed; on the one hand, you can do anything, but on the other, you have to do everything from scratch. After returning, I had a specific strategy for how to develop urban art. This was tested in St. Petersburg and Kemerovo, and when I returned to Vladivostok, I made the project "The First Swallow".


I drew a swallow with a sprig of Ledum on the species point on the roof of the funicular. I did it for my money, to show both officials and townspeople that now we will have urban art. Then there were only graffiti and gray walls, even city sculpture was not. That is, there were only works of Soviet monumental art, and it differs in that it has a moralizing character and you can interact with it only with cloves on a certain day - came, stood, a minute of silence. And people travel, they see, and they wanted those objects with which you can get acquainted, poboimatsya, rub your finger, and so on.

- That is, there was a powerful social demand in Primorye. How met “Swallow”, did not try to overwrite?

- There was no enthusiasm, no attempts to destroy, but this was not supposed. And I already knew that it would be so. I began later with master classes to even travel around Russia, they were called "10 steps to promote their project." I was much called. In short: if there is a project, you do it once for free at your own expense, you embody it, and this project should be small, so as not to undermine your own strength. But it is obligatory, when you do it, to coordinate everything with officials. You do not really need this coordination, and I did not need it for "Swallow", but the strategy is that when you agree on this project, you get to know all. Basically you are sent, football, like a ball. In Kemerovo, we were footballed for six months, in St. Petersburg - a whole year, and here, in Vladivostok, also six months passed from the first swallow to the already serious options. In general, football, and then in the eyes of one of the officials you see a spark of interest. I found such a spark in the eyes of the vice-mayor Natalia Voinovskaya, she collected all those who cheated me, and said: "I do not need to play football anymore, I need to help him." 

"Swallow" still no one was pro-subsidized and signed, and simply in words said: "Come on, do it." I did and provided a photo report. They said that everything was fine. Then there was the "Goldfish". We painted a huge goldfish in the water area all winter long to bring luck to our fishermen, who are just fishing there. From the species point it was clearly visible. When the shares began to appear one by one, a phenomenon arose in the city, officials could no longer stand by. The only thing they had to do was take under their wing.


- Called, can not resist - head?

- Yes. And when they take under their wing, you already expose them. Because to exist on a voluntary basis for a long time no project can. Well, slowly raise the price. First you say, it would be nice to at least pay a little paint, then, - let's improve the quality, and this is more time, more money, equipment rent, paints. Well, you increase budgets to Russian standards.

- Do you work solo or in a team?

- In different periods it was different. Originally, there was an idea to restore the city the feeling of a creative environment, where everything is boiling, developing, at least in the direction of urban art. In general, I then went to teach at the school in order to master young minds, I mastered them, I found helpers. There was a team, over time it grew to 40 people. I built it in the form of art activities - the recruits helped more experienced artists, gained knowledge and went on their own projects. 

And now city art is in general a sign of Vladivostok, those comrades with whom we started, they already have their own firms, they work, they are fully loaded, competitors appear. Now I'm trying to live life at the junction of socialism and capitalism, yes, I do not work for my uncle, and I have to work somewhere two days a week, the rest of the days I deal with children (I have three of them) and just live. And for this I have set my own life, because people often work, and they can not enjoy the fruits of their labor. The work industry eats up a lot of earned money: it's appearance, meetings, car and so on. And if you correctly allocate your resources, limit your requests, then you can work two days a week so that your family normally exists. 


And then the team does not really need me, I take such projects that I can do myself, and very quickly, and again return to the work and family. My current day, regardless, whether I work as an artist or give master classes, costs 15 thousand rubles. But for this day I can do four times more than the average artist. Because I have much more experience.

At the time of the promotion of business or bureaucracy, when I give myself all the time to work, I missed whole years from the life of my children. You look, and they suddenly grew up. Now I decided that this will not happen again, it makes no sense. Happiness and quality of life - in communication. Communication is the main value, especially communication with the family. Children do not need your money, but you. The family life of the father of three children, with whom you are always together, you live this very full and happy.


But you can get bored even in this paradise and want something different, new horizons. So it happened to me once. I went to Sakhalin. In Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, I became an official - the main artist. It was right after the new 2017 year. And I went there without a family, she stayed in Vladivostok.

- How did you get transformed into a civil servant?

- Being an official is a completely different life, very similar to the "Matrix": exactly at 9 hours you insert a pin into your head, and you find yourself in a reality where you do not have to prove anything or make a breakthrough in life. Because the system includes you, and you automatically become necessary to all. The phone rings, people always come, crowd, knock on the door, they all need something. I have experience in commercial reality: business relations, taxes, there you have to constantly meet with someone, prove that you are the best that you promote the best product. 

The official does not need to do this at all! You can even hide from it. As an official I was pulled constantly, let's paint the stall, let's take it away, and so on. The most pleasant thing in this system is that at 18 hours this pin gets out of your head and you fall like a lifeless body, then you come to yourself and how you try to remember what you did today. But you can not remember a thing or two. Nothing at all. It's really the "Matrix", all this bureaucratic activity is dedicated to servicing this useless worthless system.


- That is, you become a functionary, a cog in the mechanism?

"You're a functionary if you're not Neo." And I felt like Neo in this system. There is some goal that you asked, and you can go to her very, very slowly, break through. For example, one of my goals was to deal with outdoor advertising and signs in the city. So, in this matrix system, I could devote a couple of words a day to writing a normative. You get to the goal through these vicissitudes, as in a slow-motion shot. But I wanted to write the normative language in human language, so that it was understandable and accessible, so as to the exhibition, so that it would change something on Sakhalin. In the end, when six months later I wrote down this standard on two words, subtracted, showed people, received criticism, rewrote 5 times, in the end I felt it happened! I'm Neo in this system!

- And even the Pythia is not needed?

- Pythia there, too, there, in general, everything is like a fairy tale. To achieve reasonable goals as an official - so to such people straight monument can be put! It seems that there is a complicated, sat down and normative written, and, indeed, in a normal life you would have sat down and wrote, a week would have spent. And there absolutely not so. You are not allowed to do, criticize, 20 lawyers vymaryvayut your text so that you do not recognize it and do not understand what was the meaning initially. My Sakhalin experiment lasted six months, and it enriched me as an artist. 

I used to work on such projects, you know, you came to Komsomolsk-on-Amur as a guest star, gave a concert, did a master class, hung out, told everyone that they had the coolest city, and they were also the coolest, and something, and drove back. In Komsomolsk, we painted two walls and a school shed. And on Sakhalin I just managed to get used to the city, become a Sakhalin citizen and directly try on all the problems and all the advantages, and get to know myself better.

- What did you reboot in the city environment of Sakhalin?

- On Sakhalin I had several directions that were in the competence of the post that I occupied as the main artist of the city. This is a color scheme - the color of the houses, what they should be and the policy in terms of city color; this is urban lighting, as the city should look like at night; these are small architectural forms - benches, paving stones, signs, outdoor advertising, graffiti, miscellaneous paintings, sculptures. Most of all it was possible to reach the last day, as they say. Half a year I tried to slow people down (and it's very important not to confuse life, otherwise you yourself forget who you are), so, when you are an official, the artist's brain should be put aside on the shelf. Therefore half a year I myself did not draw anything on Sakhalin, but I walked and rocked the artists, so that they painted something themselves, by persuasion, jokes. And on the last day before my departure, when the official's cover was no longer needed, I again became myself and gave some artistic gifts to the city that I had time to love. One of them was an unauthorized painting on the wall. There is a village Dalnee, it is far from the city is located, the same houses. There I wrote this phrase "Love your distant" with huge letters on the wall.


- It was sublimation, a long time in the art of stringing, and you, what they say, accumulated?

- The images accumulated, the feelings that I wanted to convey, ideas. You simply do not embody them, but in notebook you hold, and then time appears and the image changes. When you are an official, to climb and write such a phrase would not be useful for the development of urban art. Officials should not draw, they must administer processes. This inscription greatly stimulated people and they have already done in the Far three more facades, already three large author's works. Very interesting team "Art-Sakhalin" they have appeared, the guys have rented a room in the city center, discussing projects. The last work they had just the other day, they finished painting the facade in the same Dalniy - Mayak.

- After six months, did the cult environment detonate on your arrival?

- Yes! And the guys are still writing such hashtag under new works # love yours. And they say that the direction began to develop thanks to the first work. And first there was a very negative echo, some people said, you want to hype, become famous, why did not you agree with anyone? Although as an official I perfectly understood that it was impossible in principle to coordinate such work "Love Your Far" in the village of Dalniy.

- And what is the negative connotation? It seems to me that this is a message to Moscow about the entire Far East.

- Absolutely. This is also about the center of Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, which forgot about the settlement of Dalniy, and this has to do with the Far East, which Moscow forgot. Clearly, if I went to coordinate with the residents of the house, with the deputies, these discussions would be delayed for half a year, and so I climbed on the wall at lunchtime and within four hours we with the local artist Alexei Druzhinin painted this inscription. And he got experience, which then inspired him to develop "Art-Sakhalin" in the mainstream of urban art. The whole city saw that this could be, and immediately began! 

I have prosecutorial appeals about what needs to be painted over, but how could he, he was ofigel. And on the other hand, a lot of people appeared who finally realized that they had not been forgotten, and now they have a chip in an impersonal new district. In general, there all this was discussed for a long time, and it was resolved in favor of the fact that we need it, and we do not need to paint the Far one, and we need a bunch of new works. Q.E.D. Although there they drove the autotower and the calls went off, but for now there are calls, you have about two hours. Already in the process came the man. And I had media there as a barrier, they began to ask him, let's write about you, of course, he answers, why write about me, let me slither, and reporters again - let's take an interview, you tell us ... While we were sorting out We just had four hours to finish the work.


- But this is vandalism, hooliganism, so graffiti artists quietly bomb the cars at night.

- This is from my point of view it was so, because only the day before I was an official! On Sakhalin, I immediately marked the time for which I arrived, which I needed for my business. But in the end, I also ran away, because the Sakhalin reality turned out to be much tougher than it was seen from Vladivostok.  
- Hikes in power - how many were there?

- Two. In the administration of the city of Vladivostok 2010-14 years, and half a year Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk as chief of design department, in fact, this is the main artist who is responsible for the appearance of the city.    
I have a theory and strategy that I need to run several parallel lives. For today's life to see: on the one hand is the family, house, cat, guinea pig, garden, and so on. On the other hand, bureaucracy. I also started this strategy, and sometimes I return to it, because this is a very interesting life, the life of an official. Then I started scientific activity three years ago. I always studied, eventually it turned out 15 years of education, the whole trip was associated with study, internships, various, and so on. And here it continued, I now graduated from the FEFU postgraduate course, wrote a paper and now I will defend myself. In scientific life, completely different laws and relationships between people. There is a musical life, the life of a rock star, I have three bands with whom we speak ...


"Am I talking to just one person right now?"

- I again see our Far East in this. In Moscow, New York, St. Petersburg, a person, in order to declare his idea, achieve something, you need to start from the bottom and just level with your maturity and old age to complete all career stages. The artist first becomes a young artist, a long time goes, then becomes a mature artist, then venerable, then dies, waving all the brush from the coffin. And this takes all my life. At the same time, this person should be very careful, because during the promotion of himself he becomes a brand. And so experimenting with the fact that today he is a punk, tomorrow a chansonnier, or today he paints in one style, tomorrow in another, he does not particularly can, because otherwise his brand will be lost and the career ladder will collapse. At us in the Far East all is in another way, and the person very quickly achieves all. Because the community is very small, people do not even have a competition.

I have several friends - famous artists in the city - and so they have become literally in two or three years, and without problems. It's a phenomenon of Vladivostok that people do a lot of things. For example, at us the director of city libraries Sergey Solovyov thus is the guitarist of two groups, one punk, another is closer to a chanson. Or recently there was an event at the coffee festival. There hung a banner: "Order coffee from the champion." I approach, I look at the champion, and I see the vocalist of the local punk band "Ersh 777". And he's also a champion in coffee. And in it I recognize the man who made me stretch ceilings in the bathroom. Absolutely Vladivostok history, we create many different parallel realities, and you can hang out in one reality with people and do not know anything about what they are in another reality. In Moscow and St. Petersburg, I did not want to part with this multi-style life. There were some contracts that limited, I always tried not to sign them and struggled in every possible way.

- Tell us about your favorite projects.

- It's so hard to say in fact, they are all very different. In 2014, when I was an official in the Vladivostok administration, but I was about to leave, because we had a summit as a result, the request for design from the city authorities ended ...

- So this is a tendency: you are going to leave the officials, and immediately start to bomb something. Spectacular layoffs!

- There is something in it! So, at 2014, my co-author, Maria Nikiforova, and I came up with an action: we launched an announcement in the media that the community "33 + 1" (and then everyone knew about us as manufacturers of monuments and large monumental murals) will make 33 a monument to our citizens -Sovremennikam. Ilya Lagutenko will be there, the governor, the mayor, the ice hockey team "Admiral", deputy Serebryakov, there will be Anna Aleko - the head of the Department of Culture, in short, everyone in our opinion worthy characters we make a monument in Vladivostok. It all happened on the Internet, everyone began to discuss it vigorously, immediately the calls began, the mayor immediately told me that Pasha, what nonsense, what kind of gag, what governor, he called me now, what are you doing? He recounted that manager Ilya Lagutenko wrote that Ilya does not put any monuments in her lifetime, Maria Solovenko, our local reporter who asked Putin a question, spoke. Her monument was called "Maria ponders the next question to the president." Such a wave has gone and everyone has started to argue whether it is good, whether it is possible, whether it is correct to put monuments to people living. There were still some characters from the glamor, Pavel Compan we have. He was glad, he said, the monument will be put to me at last! He went all over Vladivostok. The media came up with the idea that all this would be made of bronze, they asked for commercial prices, how much it could cost ... and, of course, if he was an official, these millions would be budgetary!

In general, on the day of "Ч" there were monuments. In the morning I put them out in certain places, collected the residents, gave out the cards, took a megaphone and conducted an excursion. Here we have Larisa Belobrova after the performance, here Pavel Compan bears flowers to his mother. They stood in beautiful places, but they were small and small. They were braided from a wire men, about ten centimeters in size. The budget of the project was 3000 rubles. On the eve of our basketball team called "Primrose" and said: listen, you put monuments there, we too want! And I just dropped Ilia Lagutenko, he said, in no case, we do not allow, and I say: well, three thousand rubles will be worth your monument. They are: "Oh! Three thousand everything, no problem, but we thought. " But they also did not know what they were paying for in reality, and handed over three thousand. This covered the whole share budget.

When the monuments appeared themselves, there was such a moment of silence and everyone realized that people in Vladivostok had a very hyped conceit. They wrote huge posts. Documentation of the action are screenshots of these posts of the endless, where people discussed, they slept this idea in any way, that's all these stars refused, or, on the contrary, they were glad that they were putting a monument.

- Was it the intentional trolling of your local celebrities?

- Yes. But I like these, here "Love Your Far" is not a work for the sake of a work, it's just a product for us to understand something. In fact, the image does not remain on the canvas, it appears already more in our heads. This is how modern art works, we are painting our pictures in the minds of the society, and even these pictures are not valuable here, but the pictures are virtual. You understand? Now there is no Gioconda, but there are flickering clips. But in the minds of people these clips become images that tell them about their own lives, some of them settle for a long time. This is the essence of modern art, and I'm not opening anything new here. And that's what I like doing. And it's very cool when you could spend 3 thousands and idea only, and everything else has grown in the collective unconscious.
"Inhabitants of Millionka" is also a landmark project for me, 2010-th year, when officials have already recognized me, there were already orders and money. Seven reliefs. There's a sense that there is a historical district in Vladivostok called Millionka, we have not gotten the gentrification yet, because we have such slums in the center of the city. Historical buildings are not being repaired, they all flow, smell. Millionaire - because according to the legends there was a million Chinese. These yards are very romantic and beautiful. And to entice city dwellers from the central streets, where they usually walk, and to reveal to them this beauty, I came up with a project of the quest type: locate the reliefs in different back streets. For example, there is a Chinese water-carrier, there is even a well nearby, historical, to him 150 years. There was the "King of the Million", but where capitalism gets, everything that is historical is being destroyed, including these reliefs being knocked down one by one.


- How many works in your piggy bank? And which of them attempted?

- On average, a year I translate from 30 to 50 projects, and already 20 years of creative activity. I do not consider the experience of loss sad. I'm just now writing a dissertation and defending myself, that in general in urban art, unlike the easel or museum, any upheavals in its fate become part of the art itself. If Danae hung in the Hermitage and she was doused with acid, this, of course, is an irreplaceable loss and barbarity. And if we had a royal monument in Vladivostok, Soviet power came, knocked over the head, put a Soviet star, then the power changed, and then for a long time nothing happened, and then people gathered and restored what was originally, the whole complex these events - this is life works, this is art! To my work, I'm just the same. I'm glad when my figures paint something, when they are knocked over, they transfer it. Right now, when the "Millionaire King" was shot down, people turned and said: "Let's repeat it, let's do it in another place, on our building." I say: "There was no Millions already, it ends in the next street."

Honestly, I'm more worried about the works of art of the Soviet period - monuments, mosaics, bas-reliefs - which are not now perceived as a value. In the new housing and communal services, the insulation, painting, plating of their significance is not taken into account. With this, I find it more difficult to reconcile myself.


- How to stop the destruction of Soviet sculpture?

- Firstly, the popularization of this art, and secondly, if you are in the executive branch, you have leverage to not close the mosaic. In my account, a dozen saved mosaics! Behind this is not visible work, but in each case it's nerves, this is communication with people. You meet a man who has an apartment on the fifth floor behind this mosaic, and there the cradle of the child stands next to the wall, and the wall freezes so that the frost appears, and you say to him: "Sorry, on the other hand - a beautiful fawn! We must preserve it. " Sometimes you can achieve results, sometimes not.
In Vladivostok there are several places where they managed to defend these mosaics. On the street Postysheva for example walrus is. The mosaic was left on Russkaya street. On Partizanski Prospekt, the guys shut down the mosaic. Now popular siding, hinged systems, we can say that these are secrets for future generations. On the other hand, such mosaics are closed and the memory of them is erased. Maybe in an old age I'll hold an action, if there is enough authority, we'll take and open these things for the city!

- For the emergence of Shugurov, a musician, are the brains of the artist already sent to the shelf?

- I had two teams, one is called "Kings of Vladivostok", I recently closed it. There is also a group of "Zadroty against." Usually, haters on the Internet, when you need to sneeze me, remember that it is an official who is from the Zadroty group to add a negative to the image. Our group is people of different professions and spheres of life, who are specially united to make experimental alternative music, shows, connect the unconnected, pull the unstretched. We have a glamorous DJ and restaurateur, he plays the guitar, there is such a bartender and businessman, there is an employee of Dalzavod, a factory worker.

And now I'm working on a musical project "Sosuleba". This project was born on Sakhalin, where loneliness was concentrated, where people simultaneously play drums, guitar, sing, and in general it is clear that he lacks opportunities for self-expression, and he almost grew his tail to tap them. This is a metaphor for our remoteness, where you are your own state. And then there will be a man-Pacific Orchestra. Sosuleboy - this is a profession on Sakhalin, a man knocking down icicles. The man is knocking right in the jacket with an ax welded to the scrap, people let him into the apartment, on the fifth floor, he climbs out the window and starts to shoot down huge icicles that grow there three floors down.

- Imagine that now Varlamov is sitting in front of you in a chair, or someone else who speaks unflatteringly about Vladivostok. What would you answer? Or would they not even talk?

- When I was the main artist and Varlamov first came to Vladivostok, I wrote him a message on Facebook that I was ready to conduct an excursion and show everything, but there was no reaction. We, the residents of Vladivostok - are great snobs, you can not come up to us on a crooked goat! And Moscow snobs often come. I had such a case. I was asked to conduct an excursion to the famous curator from Moscow, Sergei Nikitin, I had not previously met him. We just left, I tell him - here is the Beauty Avenue, and he asks - is this sarcasm or what? No, I say, this is our local toponym. In fact, the street is called the streets. Vsevolod Sibirtseva, she goes on top, the eagle's eagle nest, towards Lugovoy. While on it you go, you see the whole panorama of the city. He says what a beauty, shit around! To which I told him - I also see shit, like you, but if our tour starts with such statements, then we will not go far with you. I hinted at him, but he did not hear, he started to make excuses, apparently, his position to win, look there, look here, then I pressed the brakes and said: "If we continue in this spirit, then the tour is over!" In general, when the snobs come, sometimes we are with them like this ... too snobbish.

Our city has its own spirit, and certain problems. And it's always interesting to see the view from the side. I'm not inclined to Varlamov or others to blame, the main thing is that people come and they have the courage to say what they saw. And I also like the back reaction that our people are rallying, and some arguments are pretty tough. In some idealization of the city, I see a positive and negative.

This is also very different from Khabarovsk, this is a very Vladivostok trait, snobbery, because we are the kings of the hills, impudent, we feel ourselves right to declare something, condemn, and generally not listen to anyone. And this is a minus. But it becomes obvious only if you have traveled and could look at yourself from the outside. And when they complain to me that we have an outflow of population and all that, I think it's good that people are coming, you need to go. But no need to blame! Because when a person knocks down, he begins to break ties, burn bridges. And when even there he has already achieved everything and there is a desire to return, people are stopped by the fact that at one time they did not leave, but brought down. And here it is clear, you yourself will understand this when you travel.

Photo: Pavel Shugurov's archive. 

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