HOME Interview 17.06.2014

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The bank has four legs ...

Sergey Tirtsev

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The bank has four legs ...
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Chairman of the Board of the Asia-Pacific Bank Sergey Tyrtsev - about what is more important: the race for a rating or stability and stability

- Sergey Alexandrovich, you came to your post about a year ago. Are you a "successor" or a "reformer"?

- All together, but rather the first than the second. It was easy to achieve continuity, because I was the first deputy chairman of the Asia-Pacific Bank, I worked from the very beginning of our project, supervised the branch network. And the branches for us are the first principle, the whole main business is done there. Therefore, we have preserved the continuity, but have set the course for further development.

- You open branches even in the smallest cities. To what level do you come up with such a "dive into the backwoods"?

- We have chosen a development strategy, according to which we “master” region by region. The degree of penetration inside the regions was planned to be rather dense: ATB decided to enter cities with a population of thousands of people from 20. But in fact, we are present in much smaller towns. For example, in the territory of the Magadan region - in small cities located on the Kolyma highway, where 3,5-4 live thousands of people. And this is also beneficial. In the regions of the Far East there are not so many cities, the population density is low. Around the village in 10 number of thousands of people there are a few more villages, for which it is the only, so to speak, center of civilization. At least once a month, and even more often, people go there to buy products and goods, go to the bank again ... The market share of ATB in these localities is comparable to the market share of Sberbank, and somewhere surpasses it. Such competition is objectively beneficial to the final consumer: banks are competing to put forward the best deals, improve the service ...

- Is it really possible to keep full-fledged branches there economically?

- Forms of presence are different, starting from a small point where a loan officer simply sits and grants consumer loans. In another case, he also provides cash services. There are full-fledged standard departments serving individuals and legal entities, and most of them are with us. One regional center is located in each subject, as a rule, the largest in terms of area, it employs, in addition to staff serving and attracting clients, and the so-called “superstructure” - accountants, lawyers, economic security service…. The list of tariffs also depends on the conditions and location of the point of sale of banking products. Only the Moscow office differs somewhat from all the others, but this is a common thing - it’s not for nothing that they say that “Moscow is not Russia”. And we have a single business model.

- Do you have to close some branches as unprofitable?

- When we came to the bank, there were eight points of sales, now they are 310. We work in 18 regions and in 180 localities. The usual banking business: we have both a fairly successful experience of opening branches, and a fairly successful experience of their closure. But the results of evolution you see. In the strategic plan, we are going to rely on deeper penetration into the "home" market, where we are strong enough. The task for today is more effective work. It is necessary that the client in ATB bought not one product or service, but several. Our branches are able to accept a sufficiently large number of customers. But in a number of regions, in which we went not so long ago, the network is only 30% full.

- The year for the banking sector in Russia turned out to be, one can say, “turning and fateful”. What adjustments did this make to plans for the future?

- Adjustments were made taking into account the current situation - the reason for the whole complex of events that began last year, long explanations are not required. We have revised some of our global plans and are now implementing a number of new strategic initiatives. First of all, we take into account the requirements of the Central Bank as a regulator in the sphere of consumer lending. But on the whole, all this quite adequately fits into the logic of our development. At one time we started with a fairly simple - consumer loans, then started working with corporate clients. Then in retail there was a VIP-direction, and then it was time to actively engage in services and products focused on small and medium-sized businesses. Accordingly, now there are two directions that we intend to strengthen. This is working with VIP-clients in the retail segment and working with small businesses. You see, if earlier, when we just started the project, we had "one leg" - only retail. Then there were two, then the third and fourth grew back.

-I can not help remembering the song of NEP times - about a cat, which also has "four legs" and a long tail in addition. But about the "touch it is not possible" big doubts: everyone can touch us, despite the "small growth" or, conversely, a big ...

- I appreciated the joke, but I do not agree with the comparison. For us, the main thing is stability. We are among the 50 major banks of the country by assets (minor fluctuations in the rating - plus or minus 2 of the item near this figure). And although ATB has risen from its place in the sixth hundred of this list, we do not set the task to further mount the mountain and become 40, 30, 20 ... Our main task is to show good profitability and to be an effective bank. The chosen strategy contributes to this. On the one hand, universalization of the bank can be considered a minus, because we do not give all the forces to any one direction. But in conditions when the market is very much changing (under the influence of the regulator or in connection with the situation in the economy), it is easier to overcome difficulties. In particular, being a universal bank, we went through the financial crisis of 2008-2009 much easier.

As for the actions of the Central Bank, the work in accordance with anti-laundering legislation is absolutely the right choice of direction. The only question is how to make such actions, what kind of information support they should have, and with what measures it is possible to mitigate the consequences of "shock therapy" for bona fide market participants, which are still the majority. Although it is always better to fight not with the investigation, but with the root cause of any violations.

"If you risk your own, your blood, you will inevitably become fearful." Customers are no exception. After the first reviews of licenses, they were ready to take money from any bank and "transfer to a safe place." Is there not too much outflow of your clients to large state-owned banks, for example, VTB or Sberbank? And than you can keep them?

- Undoubtedly, the actions of the CBRF were not reflected in the market in the best way. But we must understand that in some cases the regulator simply has no other way out. When the first reviews of licenses took place, we made additional efforts to maximize the information about our customers and even their ratings and ratings. We have become more open compared to previous years precisely in order to reduce the nervousness that was felt by our customers and the market in general. And I believe that we were able to achieve this. Our approach to compliance with anti-laundering legislation has always been quite rigid, so there is no reason to change our position.

We can keep our customers the same as before - reliability, stability, and a reasonable attitude. We have our competitive advantages. Today, we are the bank №1 among the multi-regional banks of the country. Naturally, every region has its own financial structures, we are compelled to compete with them both in speed of decision-making and in the understanding of “local specifics”. As you can see, it usually works out. An additional impetus to all of us is given by Sberbank, which is present throughout Russia. Given that he has recently been reformed and changed, this is a good reason not to lose pace too.

- As a promising direction for ATB, you called the work with small business. Is the bank now able to lower interest rates for this category of customers? And is it possible in practice to make these loans "affordable", as state officials constantly say?

- Banks can do this at the expense of reducing their passive base and by using the funds of development institutions. For example, using the resources of the European Bank for Regional Development (EBRD) or SMEs of the Bank, which provide the appropriate tools for this. Therefore, we work closely with these development institutions, place their money in the form of loans for small businesses in the regions of the Far East and Siberia. And although this direction is relatively new for us, we were able to significantly strengthen our positions in the small business lending market, for example, we already occupy 17 place in the volume of issuing loans to small and medium-sized businesses for 2013 year (Expert RA). Last year, the volume of raised funds from the EBRD and the bank's SMEs for these needs amounted to 2,6 billion rubles.

- The European Union and the United States are threatening Russia with the application of economic sanctions. After a stir around the possible departure of "VISA" and "Mastercard" from our market, the question arose what will happen to our banks and their customers in this case. Do you assess possible risks, and what is the worst thing that can happen in the banking market due to sanctions?

- I think that business is a more serious argument than politics. I am sure that agreements will be reached, because not only Russia has a need for VISA and Mastercard cards, but for them our market is extremely important, leaving it unprofitable for anyone. Russia is sufficiently tightly integrated into the world community, it is impossible to mechanically "close its borders" for it. As far as I know, international development institutions (for example, the EBRD or our shareholder IFC), despite everything, continue to look at investment projects on the territory of the Russian Federation and are ready to invest in its economy. I think that the measures that large banks, under the pressure of their governments, have taken against Russia, were mostly "point-like". Everyone understands perfectly that it is impossible to stop settlements between our and foreign banks, block accounts ... Europe will not be able to transfer payments for energy, we will stop supplying them - will Western countries remain without gas? Absurd. A complete blockade of Russia in the modern world is impossible.

But there is also a package of sanctions that are not voiced, but somehow they are already being implemented, and this is a serious problem. In particular, a number of Russian large companies have now lost the ability to raise funds from Western banks and they are forced to seek financing within Russia in order to repay these loans - they will not be able to resume them. Naturally, the Russian domestic market has generated quite a lot of demand, and this leads to an increase in borrowing rates within the country, a rise in the cost of resources for such large companies. But in general, of course, the impact of sanctions was mostly "moral", and negative expectations turned into pressure on the Russian stock market, the national currency rate and all that we observed in March this year.

- What difficulties, in your opinion, may the creation of a national payment system face? Does China have a similar experience?

- In principle, this is organized fairly quickly and not too difficult. Russian banks will issue payment system cards, customers will soon get used to using it, not just the usual "VISA" and "Mastercard". China Union Pay also works. But for settlements abroad, the Russian card system will have to conclude contracts with major banks in foreign countries, and this will take a long time. This payment system for a long time remained purely local - "Chinese", until the system of interaction was built and agreements were reached on servicing the holders of these cards outside of China and issuance of these plastic cards in foreign banks.

And the second point: what kind of dependence are we willing to accept? In the event of the organization of its payment system, it will be necessary to sign agreements, including with American and European banks, so that these cards are serviced outside of Russia. And most likely, with the worsening of relations between countries, the Russian system can set the same requirements as we do with VISA and Mastercard. Nevertheless, in my opinion, it is better to create your payment system, and thus to provide yourself with additional room for maneuver.

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- ATB is based in the Far East, Europe is far from you, but China is close. How do you cooperate with Chinese banks now, and what can the recent signing of a number of important state agreements between Russia and China during the visit of President Vladimir Putin to Beijing contribute to?

- Most of the borders of Russia and China pass through the territories of the entities in which the Asia-Pacific Bank is located. Our head office is in Blagoveshchensk, where Russia is on one side of the Amur River, and the Chinese cities are on the other. The main trade turnover here is with China. This imposes a certain imprint on us: in many regions of the FEFD, we are a bank that is among the top three in serving foreign economic activity. At the very beginning of our activity, we opened correspondent accounts with the main Chinese banks, we have very good partnerships. It is very profitable for customers - the transfer rate is higher, the cost of payment orders is less.

At the same time, Chinese banks are interested in stimulating the export of their equipment, equipment and other goods. And we are actively working with them in the direction of trade finance: for the client, we are building a deal in such a way that he gets financing from us, but at the expense of the foreign, in this case, Chinese bank. Thus, it is possible to significantly reduce the cost of borrowed funds as a result of the fact that we actually assume obligations to the bank and act as guarantor for the loan for our client. And rates in foreign banks are much lower than in Russia, this allows the client to save a lot on credit. Each transaction, of course, is structured separately.

- Does ATB accept deposits in RMB?

- Yes, among other currencies, we are actively working with the Chinese yuan. In many cities of Russia in the ATB branch it is possible not only to exchange rubles for the yuan before the trip, but on return to vice versa, but also to open deposits in RMB. The branch in Shanghai from all Russian banks is now only VTB. But nobody hinders us without having such branches for the last 8 years to participate in the experiment on servicing accounts of companies located on the territory of Russia, in national currencies - that is, in rubles or in yuan. Previously, it was only in the Amur region and the corresponding Chinese province, and now spread to almost the whole territory of the regions of the Far Eastern Federal District. This makes it possible for a Russian company to conclude a contract with a Chinese partner in rubles or yuan and pay off not in dollars and euros, but in a more convenient currency for them.

- Do the Chinese banks have a desire to enter the Russian market themselves (let only in the form of "daughters", as prescribed by our legislation)?

- They are eyeing the Russian market, they already have independent banks in our territory. But the Chinese always play for a long time and are sure that they have an eternity to solve, although "the journey of a thousand li starts with the first step".

- Does ATB participate in large infrastructure projects that are designed to make the Far East "a point of growth for the whole country"?

- Such projects are financed either by foreign banks, which have enough funds for long-term loans at low rates, or by Russia at the expense of Vnesheconombank. Our clients are involved in them not as the main operators, but as contractors. From this follows our role. None of the Russian banks, except VEB, has an opportunity to lend projects of this size. But, anyway, any construction in the Far East has to do with us. For example, ESPO-2 was built - companies were needed that cut down the forest. And these are our clients, a small business that has entered into relevant contracts. In ATB they have accounts, payroll cards. So any project that is beneficial for the region is also useful for ATB clients and for the bank itself.

- How do you build cooperation with regional authorities of the subjects of the Far Eastern Federal District, is there a "misunderstanding"?

- We have provided the Far East and Eastern Siberia with five thousand jobs. In the Amur Region, we are one of the largest taxpayers. There are no reasons for "misunderstanding". But the type of contacts with local authorities varies depending on the region. Somewhere we work very tightly, we support small businesses, we implement payment projects through our "social card" project, both in the Amur region and in Chukotka. Somewhere we participate in competitions for lending to regional budgets. If the authorities understand what we can do for the region, cooperation is built more efficiently. According to opinion polls, in all regions of our presence, and not only in the "native" for the Amur Region's ATB, the recognition rate is quite high. Naturally, in the Amur Region, Kamchatka, Magadan Oblast and Chukotka, it is larger, since the banks that were part of the ATB used to work here earlier. In Yekaterinburg, in Kemerovo and in the Altai, where we entered one and a half to two years ago, they know us worse. There must be some critical mass of clientele in order to move the matter radically.

- In one of your interviews you described in detail how difficult it is to overcome mutual fears of the bank and business. And what is in your understanding the honest word of a banker, the honest word of a businessman and is it possible to believe the honest word of state officials?

- I think that between the honest word of a banker or an honest word of an entrepreneur, the difference is small. This is the word you must keep. We formulated the business principle of ATB from the very beginning: either we keep promises, or we simply do not give them, we shake hands and disagree. Honesty in relationships is above all. Thanks to this rule, I think we were able to build good relations with customers. As for the honest word of officials, they are the same people. For example, I was very surprised by the recent communication with representatives of the Ministry of the Far East: how much people turned out to be mobile, quite a different format than I still imagined officials.

- But in it, apparently, many representatives of the modern business elite. You did go to business school Skolkovo. What did this give you in professional terms and for personal growth?

- I can not say that due to the training in Skolkovo, some fundamental metamorphosis took place in me, and our business immediately jerked forward with strides of leaps and bounds. At the same time, I clearly understand that after the training I changed. In many ways, the theory that we were taught in Skolkovo confirmed that I did a number of practical things correctly. At the same time, an understanding of what kind of mistakes must be avoided, so that in the future not to fill yourself with cones and shorten the path to the goal. But the most valuable in this training is that in Skolkovo there were a lot of business simulations, various practical cases and games. This allows you to change your system of views, look at things more widely and freely.

Much means also communication with people from other industries. For the banking business, the experience of solving problems in the sphere of the same retail trade can be very useful. Yes, and the student brotherhood is a priceless thing, it is the acquisition of real friends. "In business" in our life we are faced with a mass of people, but it is usually impossible to build friendly relations, the interests are the basis. And then you study with forty other people, no one owes nothing to anyone, you are with them 24 hours a day for a week a month. And you have strong human connections. It costs a lot.

- And how did this training take place on the job?

“The training was modular — every month I took a vacation on the 3 day, drove into the campus, and for three working days plus two weekends we went to 8 in the morning to 10-11 in the evening, we gnawed on science. I had a choice - to study abroad or in Russia. For the first option I did not have enough free English. And in “Skolkovo” I got into an experimental group, which began my studies in Russian, pulled up a foreign language, and in the middle of the educational process I switched only to him. Professors lectured in English, but we were initially provided with translation. And then we comfortably joined the studies only in this language of international communication. In addition, we could conduct a dialogue with the most interesting speakers who gave lectures at our site, before each module a large amount of materials were sent in advance for familiarization, and as a result we received homework - something individual, then common. The group, by the way, was diverse - half were people from other regions and even countries. The most interesting thing was to carry out group tasks when it was necessary to negotiate and communicate across thousands of kilometers.

- ATB became a laureate of prestigious prizes in the field of banking. What is primary: do you work for your image or does it work for you?

"Usually the" reward finds a hero ": we do our work, we strive to fulfill the tasks set by the shareholder, and the rewards accompany the achieved success. Sometimes this is a pleasant surprise for us. Clients are pleased that their bank is "the best", the team - that its efforts were appreciated by the market, and not just the leader. Recently, in the "Bank Review" was published a list of 200 best top managers of the banking sector, and we were pleasantly surprised that three of our colleagues from the Asia-Pacific Bank in this list were.

-Mass media is a great force. But now they are clearly restricted by the Internet, social networks. As far as we know, you also do not shy away from them, judging by the rather sharp aphorisms that were posted on Twitter, or on Facebook records. How much can the manager of your level be open in social networks and what do they personally give to you?

- All social networks for me began in Skolkovo, we literally got infected with them. For people who come to the training module, and then immediately disperse, this communication scheme was ideal. Everyone chose something for their liking, I eventually left myself a Facebook. For me, this is an opportunity to see what is happening in the lives of my friends and subscribe to some news. A social network shortens my time to receive such information, plus it gives me the opportunity to convey to friends what is happening to me. And whether to be open and how much - the decision always depends on the individual.

- In some organizations, employees are strictly forbidden to use social networks and post any information about their work there. There were even cases of dismissal for intemperance in social networks. What are the rules for this in ATB?

- We do not regulate such things yet. But the question itself is ambiguous: often the comments and actions of employees, especially high-ranking ones, can be projected onto the organization in which they work. Therefore, of course, the balance must be found.

- In social networks everything is different from each other "at a comment distance". And you are not burdened by such accessibility for everyone, including any of the subordinates?

- Any employee can send me an email. And I'm very happy when they write to me. Because often, despite the built-up and debugged system of subordination, you learn a lot from a simple person who talks about a particular problem. But even without waiting for such appeals, we try to be as open as possible inside the company. We have our own "Factory of Ideas", when people exchange their projects, bring them to us, we make decisions and thank the authors of the best proposals for it. We have a monthly corporate publication, in which we place various information. Judging by the rating of its readability, people such a format of communication is interesting. Well, I have to take into account that I have been working at ATB from the very beginning and many branch managers have known since the times when they came to work as accountants and operators. This also gives me the opportunity to ask direct questions and receive honest answers from the first mouth.

- When it was harder for you - now or at the beginning? And would you be able to build the same system if you conceived the ATB project now?

"Time matters." But the window of opportunity is always present. The main thing is that the right people gather at the right time in the right place. And they did the right thing. Actually, this is exactly what we did. I hope, it will turn out further.